Revolution Rework Concept #146
Conversation
My concept of "revolution" gamemode rework, which was deleted.
github-actions
bot
added
Design
|
Oh boy we have two rev reworks now #136 and this one |
|
|
||
| **FOR WHAT:** To get rid of stealthy revolutions, add "rebel entourage" and replace trivial meta icons. | ||
|
|
||
| ### 1.3 Mindshield |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
I personally really hate the concept of mindshields, they are a really lazy bandaid to try and artificially slow/hard counter a conversion-based antag. It's good that your proposal nerfs them but I think that mindshields in general are unhealthy for the game and very quickly take over and become the objective of a round.
| ### 1.3 Mindshield | ||
| Has no effect on revolutionaries, but prevents further recruitment _(1.8)_. | ||
|
|
||
| ### 1.4 Goldstein Books |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
This is a great idea and I see some parallels to Panda's rev proposal :), I love the 1984 reference too it's very fitting thematically.
| **FOR WHAT:** Diversify the method of recruitment, allow simple revolutionaries to recruit, and make a reference to 1984. | ||
|
|
||
| ### 1.5 Rebel Flag | ||
| - There is another free item in headrev uplink _(1.1)_ - rebel flag, which **can be placed** in different departments. |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
I have some issues with this, how do you determine if a flag is placed in a department? We don't use department zones by design (it's against one of our pillars of "everything being modifyable by players"), since that creates artificial areas that can't be changed.
As an example: What happens if medical gets bombed and they decide to turn botany into the new medbay? Does the system think that the flag is placed in botany when it's really placed in med? What happens when multiple departments end up sharing the same space? (this might happen on some maps)
There was a problem hiding this comment.
As far as I know there is already a system in ninja mechanics where you have to plant a bomb in a department and detonate it. The same mechanics will be used to check the flag location on the station.
| - Normal crew can remove it manually activating the process for 1 minute (can't move). Can't be moved. | ||
| - **Can't be staged after** the evacuation shuttle has been dispatched. | ||
|
|
||
| **FOR WHAT:** to get rid of stealthy revolutions, diversify the strategic part of the mode, and supplement the points system. |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
I think getting rid of stealthy revolutions is the wrong idea. Revs are intended to be a primarily social deduction (Stealth) gamemode where the crew try figure out the imposters among them (SUS), not just another nukie gamemode. I do agree that having alternative ways for revs to take over the station is good.
| **FOR WHAT:** to get rid of covert revolutions. | ||
|
|
||
| ### 1.7 Headrev | ||
| **When a headrev dies**, revolutionaries are **not deconverted**, but there will be no new headrev. Calculation of the number of hedrevs is the same as before. |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
I like this, it moves sec/crew's objective from killing headrev to finding all the revs.
|
|
||
| > Will create as a partial necessity for meetings and speeches. Dialogue (RP process) - as a recruitment tool. | ||
|
|
||
| **FOR WHAT:** Completely abandon the violent conversion mechanic, diversify the RP process. |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
The problem with voluntary antag recruitment is that players will almost always take/seek it out since it basically gives them more agency (aka a free pass to break shit and kill people)
| **FOR WHAT:** Completely abandon the violent conversion mechanic, diversify the RP process. | ||
|
|
||
| ## 3. GREENTEXT | ||
| Due to the fact that normal programmatic determination of winners in the mode requires a large and intricate game code/mechanics, everything can be reduced to two simple things: |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
I don't think relying on programatic win conditions is a good idea. It's alot better to make the objective something simple that players can directly understand (like capture command).
There was a problem hiding this comment.
I've been thinking about this and as has been written - it's hard to find a specific goal for a regime to win, like the usual traitors. Of course, you could try and create a fancy goal system for revolutionaries, but I think it would be difficult both from the gameplay design and programming side.
| - rev icon replacement | ||
| - additional avenues for recruitment | ||
| - rev uplink | ||
| - various rebel paraphernalia |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
yes, make revs actually have themed gear! I love it
| - For **one recruited** it gives **1 Rebel Telecrystal** (RTC) to headrev’s uplink. | ||
| > A full list of gear is being worked on. | ||
| Approximately: | ||
| Soviet-made pistols, Mosinky, PPSh, Kalashnikovs, RGDs, various body armor, clothing, riot posters, homemade war makings, ammunition and other paraphernalia |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
This is great! I love the idea of Nanotrassen trying to stop a socialist "commie" uprising. Stylistically it's a great nod to the red revolution (Plus it ties in nicely to the syndicate with their red themeing)
|
|
||
| **FOR WHAT:** These things will make the headrev stand out from the crowd or help him in some minor actions for later climax (like raiding an security patrol). | ||
|
|
||
| ### 1.2 Holographic Armband |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
This seems overly complex and it doesn't really add a lot for the amount of work it would be to implement. Additionally, it basically makes a stealth revolution almost impossible which is exactly the opposite thing we want. Ideally a revs rework would add more options not take existing ones away.
There was a problem hiding this comment.
I really like some parts of this proposal but I think it needs more work for it to fit into upstream LRP/MRP without adding extra admin load and encouraging unhealthy player habits. The scoring/win condition system is also overly complex which makes it likely to break and hard for players to understand without reading a guide.
I especially liked the theming/items and some of the conversion mechanics you came up with but overall I don't think that this is going in the right direction for upstream. I'm not saying it's bad, on the contrary, it's a great design but in its current state it doesn't really fit with our new antag design goals.
My review brings up some of the specific issues but just to summarize:
- Removing the possibility of stealth revolution is a negative thing, we should be adding more options not taking them away. Part of the core identity of revs is their social deduction/suspicion aspect and it's something we need to keep.
- Too much information about the revolution is being shared with all players. Using station announcements in this way feels very gamey and unimmersive. Not to mention that it makes it trivially easy for sec to counter the revs since you have perfect information.
- The scoring system/objective is overly complicated and not easily understandable at a glance by a player
- Certain mechanics depend on fixed department zones to work which is not something we support.
- Voluntary recruitment is problematic since players will almost always seek out being made antag since it gives them more freedom.
Jezithyr
added
the
Major Changes Needed
|
Since I've revised my concept a bit, I'll make changes, but let me clarify the following things.
You're somewhat right, the concept lacks that suspicion of rebellion involvement, so I've reconsidered about the holographic armbands (see new pr).
However, experience has shown that sometimes covert revolutions truly do become quite boring, so helping to expose them should, I believe, remain, such as announcing a possible riot.
Is not a way of playing for revolutionaries, but merely a trivial in-game scoring of points that determine the degree to which a station is "polluted" by revolution.
I believe that flags represent diversity in the world of the gamemode. It always seemed a little raw to me, as if (as stated in the concept itself) it lacked some kind of strategic zest. For example, in nuke mode you need to get the disk before blowing up the station. Agree, it would be much more boring if they immediately had to break through to the warhead.
Yeah, but it's still way better than forced conversion. As I said, it will just make the revs kinda cultist gamemode. |
Revision of the mechanics of the holographic armand, or rather its removal.
My rework concept of "revolution" gamemode, which was deleted.